Sanctification: Nothing In Ourselves
Apr 22
Here’s a quote I absoloutely loved by Ed Ross:
Now, please hear this: Our present pursuit of sanctification unto holiness has nothing to do with our ‘becoming’ anything in ourselves. If we are in Christ, our perfection and glory is already certain. The Father already loves us with the same love, and to the same extent, that He loves Jesus (John 17:23, 26)! We cannot add or detract anything from that love. We are already complete in Him (Colos 2:9-10); and one day we will see Him as He is, and in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, we shall be made perfectly like Him (1 Corinth 15:51-52; 1 John 3:2). The moment we view holiness to as goal to be pursued in and of itself in order to make us in any way better, or more acceptable to God, we cast ourselves right back on legal ground, as if Christ had never come. But if we are already complete, why, then, should we be concerned at all about sin and righteousness in the present? Precisely because (as others have pointed out) in Christ, by new birth we are born incurable God-lovers. As such, motivated by love, it is our heart’s desire to display Him! Whether we eat or drink, or whatever we do, we are to glorify Him (1 Corinth 10:31). That means, as we move through the circumstances of each day, in every aspect of our being, we make it our aim in love to display the beauty of our Lord with an excellent spirit and demeanor (the fruit of the Spirit! Gal 5:22). And this display is not only to the people around us as a letter known and read by all (2 Corinth 3:2), but it also makes known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places, the manifold wisdom of God in His redemption of the church (Eph 4:10).
Lionel,
You certainly picked the most glorious photo to go with the most glorious truth.
No room for ego here!
Lionel,
The quote stated:
“The Father already loves us with the same love, and to the same extent, that He loves Jesus (John 17:23, 26)! We cannot add or detract anything from that love.”
My questions:
You seem to ask others, such as Seekerman, “what made you come to God?” as opposed to God “electing” only a few for salvation (I think this your view).
1) So does it really fit with the character of God (all knowing, all powerful, all merciful, all loving) to have this love for so few (I think the elect in your current view) but not have this same love for the majority of His human creation?
2) I know you’ve mentioned in the past that God has a “different love” for most. Do you still hold to that position or have I misunderstood you?
BTW:
For all of the haters out there, this comment is not intended to spark a debate on “universalism”. Just some serious questions that I would like for Lionel to think about and then give a serious response. I have already stated in detail my current understanding on what many seem to term “universalism”. Therefore, there is no further comment needed on my part unless someone ask me a specific question about my belief.
WARNING: Jon Paden teaches a doctrine that some call Universalism. Jon adheres to and teaches the idea that nobody will endure a literal eternal conscious torment away from the presence of God and that ultimately everyone will be saved in direct contradiction to the clear teaching contained in the Word of God… He arrives at his position by isolating certain scriptures outside of their proper context and by ignoring numerous scriptures that contradict his position. Jon would have you believe that Lionel and I and others here on Lionel’s blog have failed to answers his questions or deal with the scriptures he throws out, this is far from the truth. Over the past three years Jon’s arguments have been answered and refuted from the scriptures by numerous individuals here and on Lionel’s previous blog. Many including I have concluded that going round and round with Jon regarding the same arguments and scriptures is no longer a good use of time. Jon also makes the accusation that those who believe in the plain teaching of scripture and the very words of Christ Himself regarding the fact that those who die outside of Christ will be eternally seperated from God somehow derive some type of joy from that truth. Nothing could be further from the truth; I derive no joy from knowing that the majority of humanity including members of my family will face a Christless eternity. The truth is that teaching that everyone will eventually be saved and that no one will experience an eternal separation from God is another gospel that gives false hope to those outside of Christ. Instead of debating with Jon, I have decided to save my time by simply posting this warning each time Jon attempts to persuade other to embrace his false teaching. I hold no animus towards Jon and pray that God will grant him repentance unto salvation and that he will turn from propagating his false gospel.
UPDATE: Jon has recently indicated on Lionel’s blog that he also denies the Trinity existence of God, The Eternality of Christ as well as the deity of Christ.
For those who believe like Hutch,
If there is a great possibility that your children or future children might end up in the “Christless eternity” group, why would you, or anyone else in their right mind, decide to have children?
That would be a huge gamble you’re taking with your own kids!
Afterall, would’nt it be better (according to Hutch’s view) to not have kids at all?
BTW:
I know that I’m not the only want who thinks logically concerning this matter.
Jon,
Thats a good question man. Darn good question.
It’s a stupid question. Lionel this is where I go. You’ve had one or two thought provoking posts, but really, particularly with this unveiled JW named Paden, you haven’t got any discernment. Yes, “More love is needed” , you will say, but I’m not going to play ‘love’ with somebody who does not know the Lord and I suspect, hijacks threads to confuse and water down the truth. I think in some ways your campaign is now so conspicuous and going in an obvious direction – attack the fundamentals – even the deity of Christ! “Where have I attacked the Lord’s deity?” you will ask, by not making a clear stand on vital issues. You sought to cover the issue with a post questioning “What makes a person a Christian?” Then there was the response “Well, I didn’t know about Christ deity when I was saved, I just believed”. Yeah, and I would show you the simplest, youngest believer if asked whether Jesus is God in the flesh , they would say yes. No way would they respond like Paden and deny. I conclude your Jesus, and the Jesus you allow Paden to place unchallenged on your posts – all in the name of love – is not my Jesus.
Cushie,
In Lionel’s defense, I think you have his intent all wrong. I also think you underestimate the presence of the Spirit in his life. I believe Lionel’s primary objective in allowing Jon Paden to post (even though I wouldn’t allow him to post the same thing over and over in post that don’t have anything to do with his “hobby horse”) is to provoke thought and to challenge false beliefs. Yes, Lionel is gracious. Yes, his allowances exceed mine. But I don’t believe for a second that he has some underlying intent to “waterdown” the fundamentals. Lionel is a “Gospel of Jesus Christ” brother, first and foremost. Do I agree with Lionel on everything? NO! But, do I believe in his integrity? YES! Lionel is willing to ask the tough questions. He is willing to challenge “tradition” to get at the truth. Again, do I always agree with his conclusions? Certainly not. But I respect that he is at least willing to search and to hear from others. I think you should have at least questioned Lionel first before you assigned these motives and such to him.
BTW, Hutch’s warning post is sufficient to combat Jon Paden on this blog. And Lionel allowed his post to remain. That is direct evidence of Lionel’s fairness and that false beliefs are not going unchallenged.
Just a word from a brother.
Lionel,
As you continue to search for more of God’s truth, always remember that if you want to be a true servant of Christ you cannot be a people pleaser. The more you come to the fullness of his truth, the more the religious establishment will attack you.
Always be encouraged and I love you in Christ whether we agree on everything or not. Just as I have love and respect for all of my attackers. For they too are still being conformed to Christ’s perfect image.
I’m not speaking for Lionel and I know he will correct me if I’m wrong, but I am fairly certain that he embraces and teaches the deity and eternality Christ as well as the trinty existence of God. He has even affirmed that in his last few posts and comments. Although it is not the focus on this post, Lionel was asking on his other post what oen must believe doctrinally in order to be saved, and the answer is not very much. Being a new covennat guy, I think Lionel agrees with my position that once one is saved by grace through faith in the gospel/the finished work of Christ, one is then sealed unto the day of redemption by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit who leads God’s children into all truth regarding things such as the deity and eternality of Christ. Keep asking the hard question Lionel, it has helped us both out immensely in our walk with Christ. Cushie, I believe you have drawn the wrong conclusions about brother Lionel as he has never to my knowledge accepted Jon Paden’s hyper atonement/universalist teachings and has refuted them here over and over again. My warning was against Jon Padens teachings.
Wow,
Sorry I didn’t check this last night. I won’t say much to your response Cush other than I don’t agree with Jon because of the scriptures. I even talked with Jon on the phone about Christ’s deity, better yet Christ’s humanity. LOL.
Also Cush please look at my responses to Jon if that doesn’t satisfy you then what you want me to do is respond like others and I will not. If a Muslim posted here, a Mormon or a JW I would allow it and sometimes I will interact other times I will not. But to be clear here is what I currently believe.
1. Jesus Christ is God incarnate
2. Jesus Christ was born of a virgin
3. Jesus Christ lived a sinless life
4. Jesus Christ was the atoning lamb and Son of God prophesied in the Old Testament
5. Christ’s raised from the dead in bodily form and gurantees us the same resurrection.
6. Christ’s sacrifice was WHOLLY sufficient to satisfy the wrath of God COMPLETELY and those who trust in His sacrifice are credited rightesousness by grace through faith.
7. Jesus will return to judge the world.
8. Those who have not accepted this merciful act of grace will be eternally seperated from the Triune relationship and their sins will be counted against them.
I hope that is a proper answer. Anyone want to add anything?
9. Those who have accepted this merciful act of grace “must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ so that each may be repaid for what he has done in the body, whether good or bad.”
(2 Corinthians 5:10)
If you haven’t already done so, Lionel, please read the comment which I just posted via In Depth Studies ( http://idsblog.com/?p=2238&cpage=1#comment-2194 ); thanks.
Jim,
I did read it, but let me ask in return what do you believe this verse to mean?
Please read my answer via http://idsblog.com/?=p223 (comment #24 to Law of Christ Part 2); thanks.