It is true I am bringing many presuppositions outside of the word of God; however, it is a presupposition to believe that every stroke in the bible is “inspired” by God. I will admit it does make for murky conversations especially with protestants/evangelicals, in which I would in past label myself as. I don’t know if it is dangerous unless your presuppostion is right and my presupposition is wrong, but none the less they are both presuppositions. So I can’t say that I called God “wrong”. I called Israel wrong and God may or may not have been involved with the massacre (regardless it is a massacre). So I do believe God’s actions are “holy and just” I just don’t know if what I read are “His actions”.

You can read some of my older stuff at http://www.blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com

Stay encouraged as you continue to seek more of God’s truth!
Persecution comes to all who truly love and seek to know God and His son Jesus Christ.

I also belive that all of God’s actions are holy and just especially with the understanding that God may use these past events to ultimately draw all men to Christ. I believe God is currently using and in the future will use these past events for His creation to learn from and be corrected/chastised/judged by in the coming age(s) of judgment. Also the angelic beings are learning from how God is dealing with humans. God knows how to draw each and every human that He has created whether they be unborn fetuses, mentally impaired, innocent children, etc. God’s mercy endures throughout the ages (forever).

I can’t stress enough for you to restudy aion/aionios as it relates to “eternal damnation/condemnation/judgment. The same “fire” is used to judge us presently and all others in the coming age(s) – “lake of fire”. God’s judgment is always for purification not for simple revenge or through unforgiveness. This would not agree with the God of mercy and love described throughout scriptures.

I really do believe that when (if) you come to this understanding, then it will surely help to clear up a lot of the confusion you seem to have over God being loving and soverign but yet commanding certain acts of “violence” in the past. This will also help to explain why this all loving, powerful, all knowing God would create some beings that He knew would contiue to reject Him and thus be tormented throughout this present life as well as in the coming age(s) of judgment.

Why would God desire to create beings to torment them eternally?

Does God somehow joy in tormenting His own creation (clay)?

This makes no sense when you really think about it, therefore it must be something wrong with your current or past understanding of scripture. Restudy!!! The scriptures are a true witness when discerned correctly. There are no contradictions and the same main messages are being proclaimed throughout the old and the new which are (in part):

– God’s creation and the fall
– His ultimate plan of reconciliation of all things through Christ
– establishment of a New Creation through Christ by the complete eradication of sin and death (both physically and spiritually) in all things whether things in heaven or on earth

BTW:
Hope this comment may at least stir you up to more study of the scriptures even if we still do not come to agreement on everything!!!

I will attempt to be as honest as I possibly can, again I want to preface my responses with saying these things are struggles not things I am totally sure of.

1. The bible being “true” could mean a few things. If you mean 100% right that is where I would have the problem. For example I don’t believe that it is ever right to take the life of a child or a pregnant woman. There are times in the bible (Numbers 31 being one) where this seems to be endorsed by God. I don’t know if that is right. I believe the event to be true as it relates to its historocity though. A reason is that there were many nations who were practicing this type of work, do we say God endorsed that also? What about Bosnia? or Rwanda? or Sudan? I believe that to be evil so I don’t know how I can say this isn’t evil, unless of course God really did say it, so I wrestle. Not to mention if we follow the bible you would have to believe a group of slaves were wrong to rebel against their masters, even to the point of doing it violently. I say that is wrong, if a man has you against your will (regardless of who sold you there) you have every right to fight for your freedom, even until death.

2. One could be ignorance the other rejection. For example slaves often rejected the religion of their masters (Christianity) so did Indians. Some of this could have been out of ignornace (justifiable ignorance I might add) not evil. I believe ignorance to be different than evil.

3. I sort of answered this in one, but I can’t “biblically”, this is why I talked about the inner witness. I can’t see how something today is wrong and wicked when the same events 3000 years ago are not.

4. I don’t know how clear that is. And if it is clear (and I am sure the victims didn’t see it that way) how do I now know that genocide today is not “clear”. When can I call it wicked?

So those are my opinions right now.

Satan is evil. I have to think about your second point. I may be arguing that God didn’t endorse such crimes (nor do I believe that innoncent children will be destroyed when Christ returns)

I choose wrong over evil, but that could be a matter of semantics