The Carrot And Stick Gospel: When Grace Is Not Enough
Mar 22
Grace is the word that separates Christianity from every other religion. There has been stories of the resurrection (See the story of Osiris) there has been stories about the gods coming down; however, no religion has a God stepping down in human flesh and bearing His own wrath on the behalf of others to reconcile human and God forever.
Christianity is the only purely grace centered religion that I know of. There may be others out there, but as far as I know. No religion offers security today based on the faith of another’s work. My friends this is why I am a Christian. I have studied quite a few religions, even practiced Islam for some time. But they all left a gaping hole, an unclosable chasm, an irreconcilable balance, one that my own effort, if they were good enough, if I measured up, would have to attempt to fix and when the lights went out, I knew beyond a shadow of doubt that I was not good enough to measure up. I had sinned day after day and I felt alone, broken, ashamed but most of all, inadequate to earn my own righteousness.
This caused me to reevaluate the God of my youth. I was raised in church from birth to about 12, the point when I became a hoodlum of sorts and my grandmother let me go my own way. So I knew about church. During summers the little white church on the corner would do VBS and I would listen to the stories. I would hear the preacher talk about Jesus Christ even at age 16 I made, what I thought to be, a dedication to serve Jesus, only to be introduced to salvation by works. I had to speak in tongues and live holy or I would find myself wanting. The constant frustration led me away from Jesus to some type of agnostic to Islam to 5 percenter back to Christianity to evaluation all religions back to agnostic and eventually back to Christianity again.
The only difference the last time was that I was introdcued to grace and because of that I now could properly identify with this Jesus that I had become numb to through the years. Jesus became a living reality because of Grace. Once I knew that He paid it all, that He was my eternal substitute, that He was my sin bearer, that He intercedes for me, that He became my perpetual High Priest, that He shed His blood on the cross so that I never have to worry about measuring up again, I breathed a sigh of relief and have never looked back. Yes I have struggled with what it looks like to live as a Christian and many of the doctrines that are taught today, but never have I took my eyes off of Jesus the Christ, the Son of God, God in flesh, the second person in the Trinity, the Lion of Judah, my everything.
Now with that rather long introduction. I want to say something. Today, because of the abuse and the commonality of “Christianity” there is a new push towards works based salvation. It is cloaked in different language but it is evident none the less. What surprises me the most is that it is spewed from the mouths of those who seem to fight so hard for grace.
Today grace is not enough, it is grace plus something. I had been in a discussion where it is grace plus persecution. This is coming from the mouth of those who would call themselves “reformed”. See the reason Christians aren’t persecuted is because they are not Godly and ultimately not Christian. See persecution would flood America if Christians were Godly enough, that is why all the Godly Christians in China and Iraq and India are under persecution because they are “radical”. So today we have found a new way to introduce works based salvation.
It is ironic because the very people fight so hard to tell people about grace and that you can’t be saved by works, and that if you attempt to add anything to Jesus you are redefining the Gospel, only to be introduced to the same works not too much later. This is preposterous. See here is the truth. THE GOSPEL IS EITHER ALL OF GRACE OR NONE OF GRACE. Let me say it this way, I have to earn grace it is no longer grace, at least not from the biblical definition. We are not under a works motivated covenant. We are under the New Covenant which I would define as a Trilateral covenant between the Godhead and we partake of this covenant by faith. There is absolutely NOTHING we can do to earn God’s favor, to do so would be to undermine the great measures God took to reconcile us to Himself.
Whenever someone attempts to measure your salvation or holiness or standing before God by your works, be very wary of such a person. They are using the carrot and stick approach. You will never measure up. Often times they never measure up. Anxiety is ever before them and now they have found away to cloak their anxiety in theological jargon and dress you in it also. Salvation is by grace. Grace is accompanied by a love for others and Gdo which is a supernatual work but also it is an evolving work. We look at our works to pray for strength to love Jesus more, not to gauge our salvation to do the latter has to be offensive to a God who clothed Himself in humanity to take on your sin. Paul says “if I could attain it by works, Jesus died needlessly”.
In Paul’s letter to the Galatians he spends 95% of the letter exalting the glorious grace that Jesus has bestowed on His beloved and because we are upset with Joel Olsteen or some other teacher we scratch Paul’s warning of anathema so we can have “true Christians”. Listen you will never measure up, unless you clothe yourself in the finish work of Jesus. You can’t. The mark of salvation is too high, it is unattainable. We must embrace grace with our whole being or find ourselves outside of the Christian religion.
If the preaching of Grace will not cause one to both tremble at the Holiness of God and cling to Him for eternal life nothing else will. If grace doesn’t motivate him to submit himself to his master and others then nothing will. This type of carrot and stick gospel, regardless of what the carrot may be, only gives a man contempt for others and a false sense of security in his own works. He will begin to measure other Christians and become like the Pharisee who beat his chest and said “I am glad I am not like these sinners”. And often time this type of haughtiness goes unchecked, and as I have experienced on facebook , the blogsophere and even face to face interactions it is actually applauded.
I know this post is long but this is such an important issue. As I was reading Galatians Paul says “they came to spy out our liberty in Christ and make us slaves”. This is what this type of teaching does. It makes you slave of someone other than Christ. Flee slavery, Christ grants us a liberty beyond measure. Freedom from sin, freedom for works, freedom from death and freedom from others. This freedom now enslaves us to love, walk in it. Put on Christ and flee legalism you will never get the carrot you will only get tired and wore down or become disillusioned with your own pursuit.
The good news is not only that God in human form (Jesus) lived the perfect life we are not able to lead, in our own strength, but that he sacrificed his life for everyone, so that all humanity- equally (yes, because God is omniscient, he foreknows who will eventually come to him, and those who will not, because he’s not constrained by our finite concept of time; but he doesn’t foreordain folks to salvation, and others to hell)-can have access to their creator who grants eternal life. And the fact that he laid down his life and raised it up, is key to placing the cherry on top of it all, because we know we serve a God that was victorious against death, and that his promises are true.
This is the Gospel.
Thanks for the input Seekerman, I agreed with some of what you said.
Lionel,
As usual, great article!
Only donkeys need a carrot and a stick! That makes me wonder!
Lionel,
Your understanding of grace would seem to make God a respector of persons or simply unjust to bestow grace on some and leave the majority stuck to damnation.
Also, I have recently been restudying the scriptures on who Jesus Christ really is and the history of the doctrine of the “Trinity”. I know this may also sound like complete heresy to you and most of your readers but I am reconsidering my position on this doctrine. I believe that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation and has been exalted by God above all things whether in heaven or on earth. He is the anointed one, the Messiah, our Lord/Master, teacher, high priest, and the only mediator between God and man. He was born from a virgin, died on the cross for the sins of the world, was raised on the third day, and exhalted by God above all things. However, He is not co eternel and co equal with the one true God who is His father and His God. He has no authority nor life in himself but it has been granted by God His father. The Father is greater than the Son. God cannot be partly man and still be all God. God cannot lose or give up His power nor can He die. God was not given His power nor authority. God would not pray to Himself for He is self sufficient and all powerful.
Before you dismiss me as a complete heretic, why not open up a discussions to prove all things. Various translations of the bible are in error, especially as it relates to translations of elohim and theos. I would love to dialogue with the scriptures to better understand who the one true God is and His begotten Son Jesus.
Jon,
I am not into labeling people heretics anymore friend. I apologize for my past behavior. I do disagree with what your proposing. How would you like for me to open up the discussion. The floor is yours. I don’t know if this post really gives you a platform to present it, but if you want to use it that is fine.
I would also say that I don’t know if wrestling with such ideas makes one not a Christian.
Lionel,
Your last response to me shows much growth in you. Praise God for that! And I do forgive you for any wrong done to me in the past as I hope you have done for me as well.
I don’t see how wrestling with such ideas makes one not a Christian. I still have not found any scriptures that state that we must believe in the doctrine of the trinity in order to be saved. Salvation is knowing the one true God and His son Jesus Christ. Believing in His life, death, and resurrection are apart of this knowledge. I now believe that the Holy Spirit is God’s power and presence within the believer and not a second or third person within the “trinity”.
I will start off the discussion with the following questions:
How do you deal with scriptures that speak of Jesus as being:
1)man and tempted in every way as us
Why would God pray to Himself
2) given power and authority by His Father
3) Father head of Christ and greater
4) Jesus claimed He did not know all things
5) Spoken of as firstborn of many brethren (God has no brothers and was never born in any way)
6) Jesus teaches us to pray to God who is His God
7) Jesus is subject to the Father
9) How can God cease being God
10) God the Father is never spoken of as having a God
11) God the Father never was given His power and authority yet we read that Christ was given his by the Father
12) How is Christ like us in every way if He is fully God and human
13) We will be joint heirs with Christ, not God
Lionel, if you would prefer, I could provide a link to a very insightful debate between to brothers that I think would be edifying to all.
Jon,
Sure you can include the link. Also to your second paragraph. I agreed with it in my original comment. I don’t believe that someone wrestling with the eternallness of the Son of God makes him/her a nonbeliever. I do believe they are wrong but I can’t say they are not Christian. To your questions…
1. He was fully human and fully divine a term coined the Hypostaticunion. Often times writers express the humanity of Christ (Colossians) while other stress the Deity of Christ (Hebrews and Matthew) and some express both very well (the Gospel of John).
2. Philippians 2 answers this question I believe.
3. Philippians 2 and Hebrews 1
4. Philippians 2
5. He is the firstborn from the dead. This is a very specific doctrine and would mean a lot to the original readers such as the Colossians who were struggling heavily with Jesus being divine. The reaons being is that they felt flesh/matter was corrupted, so there is no way that God could be a man so they came to one of two conclusions. 1. Jesus was not in human flesh (the firstborn) or 2. Jesus was not divine (Paul says “He is the image of the Invisible God and all things were created by Him, for Him and through Him, in both heaven and earth, only God has creating power).
6. Jesus prays to the Father while in human flesh (that is why His temptation and humanity is real). However, often times prayer is directed to both the Father and the Son in Paul’s writing. This would be idol worship from the perspective of a Jew and often times that is why Jews had a huge problem with the Gospel.
7. He is subjected to the Father until all things are consumated (Philippians 2 and Hebrews 1-2) once it is finished the Father will lay everything at the Son’s feet and He will become all.
8. Jesus set aside His rights as God (Philippians 2) this is how the sin bearer could bear sin and be crucified and it be real. It wouldn’t really had been a sacrifice.
9. He didn’t cease being God. He set aside His rights as God. For example a man who is King can set aside His rights as a king and become a servant. By all standards He is still King. But that is the great mystery of the Gospel and is only explainable how the scriptures explain it. I can only humble myself to what I have received, I am often baffled by it, but I do believe it to be true.
10. In redemption the Father plays the role as the one who needs to be compensated. Why? I don’t know.
11. The incarnate Christ yes. The etenal Son? No. We see Christophonies throughout the Old Testament (Daniel being one place) We never hear of such power being given then, we only see it in His incarnation. Nor do we hear of any power now as He sits at the right hand.
12. In His humanity, if we read the text that is what it says. How is He also above the Angels? How is that possible if He was a human. Your question is with the text not those who have submitted themselves to the text.
13. This is speaking of the resurrection.
Jon,
Also please note this can be an ongoing discussion and if you are convinced that Jesus is not Coequal with the Father, we won’t get any further. I will let you get the last comment on the issue and you can include the link for anyone interested in discussing the issue. But again I don’t believe that it makes one nonchristian, just a wrong-christian
Lionel,
Here you go again assuming that you have absolute truth on a matter but yet not willing to fully defend your argument with another who currently disagrees. Always be willing to reconsider your positions in light of possible greater understanding. However, if you feel that it is not worth your time to respond to my rebuttals to your position on this doctrine, then so be it.
1. Anyone can state a position without specific scriptures to back it up. We need scriptures to discuss and not just throw out opinions and then say that the book of Matthew or Colossians proves my point.
2. Jesus Christ was in the outward appearance of God, so much so that he said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Christ always did the Father’s will, and perfectly represented his Father in every way. The wording of Philippians 2:6-8 does not present us with a God-man, with whom none of us can identify. Rather, it presents us with a man just like we are, who grew and aged, yet who was so focused on God in every thought and deed that he perfectly represented the Father.
After saying that Christ was in the form of God, Philippians 2:6 goes on to say that Christ “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped” (NIV). This phrase is a powerful argument against the Trinity. If Jesus were God, then it would make no sense at all to say that he did not “grasp” at equality with God because no one grasps at equality with himself. It only makes sense to compliment someone for not seeking equality when he is not equal. Some Trinitarians say, “Well, he was not grasping for equality with the Father.” That is not what the verse says. It says Christ did not grasp at equality with God, which makes the verse nonsense if he were God.
Also notice in verse 9 as a result of Christ humility and obedience to God, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name. He did not previously have this position for it was given to Him at the appointed time.
3. vs 9 would seem to prove again that Jesus (referred to as god/judge/ruler not God) was given his power and authority by someone greater than him, his father the one true God.
That Christ is an “heir” is inconsistent with Trinitarian doctrine, which states that Christ is co-equal and co-eternal with the Father. If Christ were God, then he was part owner all along, and thus is not the “heir” at all. These verses teach that God is the original owner, and will give all things to His heir, Jesus Christ. It is obvious from the wording of these first two verses that the author of Hebrews does not consider Christ to be God.
Furthermore, the entire opening section of Hebrews, usually used to show that Christ is God, actually shows just the opposite. More proof of this is in verses 3 and 4. After Christ sat down at the right hand of God, “he became as much superior to the angels” as his name is superior to theirs. “God” has always been superior to the angels. If Christ only became superior after his resurrection, then he cannot be the eternal God. It is obvious from this section of Scripture that “the Man” Christ Jesus was given all authority and made Lord and Christ.
4. already dealt with
5. Since aionas means “ages” and not “world,” it is fair to ask in what sense God has made the ages through Jesus. First, it must be understood that the word “made” is extremely flexible. It is the Greek word poieo, which, both alone and in combination with other words, is translated more than 100 different ways in the NIV, and thus has a wide range of meaning. Some of the ways poieo is translated are: accomplish, acted, appointed, are, be, bear, began, been, bring, carry out, cause, committed, consider, do, earned, exercise, formed, gain, give, judge, kept, made, obey, performed, preparing, produce, provide, put into practice, reached, spend, stayed, treated, was, win, work, wrote, and yielded. Although most people read poieo in Hebrews 1:2 as referring to the original creation, it does not have to mean that at all. The context dictates that the “ages” being referred to are the ages after Christ’s resurrection. In verse 2, Christ became heir after his resurrection. In verse 3, he then sat at God’s right hand after his resurrection. Verses 5 and 6 also refer to the resurrection. The context makes it clear that God was not speaking through His Son in the past, but that He has spoken “in these last days” through His Son, and “given form to” the ages through him
6. Christ has been granted his power and authority from God. Prayer is simply to petition, request, ask for. Why would it be so odd that we petition not only God but also (if we like) petition God’s mediator between Himself and man. Afterall, Jesus has the power to bless us, instruct us, forgive us, and give life to us. The jews thought in error that Christ was claiming to be God when he forgave people of their sins while on earth. The jews thought that God alone has the power to forgive not realizing that God had granted this power to Christ. Christ also had granted the power to forgive to his disciples.
7. I don’t know where you find this in scripture. The scripture actually says that : …for Christ must reign UNTIL God has put all of Christ’s enemies under His feet. For God has put all things in subjection under Christ feet. But when He says all things are put in subjection, it is evident that God is excepted who put all things in subjection to Christ. Then when all things are subjected to Christ, then Christ himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Christ, so that God may be all in all.
God is not subject to anyone but Christ is subject to God.
8. I don’t understand what you are saying on this one
9. So what about when Christ says that the Father is greater than him, and that he does not know all things like the Father, and says that the Father is his God. Does God have a God?
10. The bible tells us that there is only one mediator between God and man, the MAN (not God) Christ Jesus.
11. What about John 10:34-36? It should be rendered gods and not God. The context of scripture should be used to determine if the words elohim and theos refer to gods (judges/rulers/lords) or God (the one true God).
12. He BECAME much greater than the angles after God exhalted him to this position. Also we will also judge the angles with Him as it stated in I Cor 6:3
13. I know and it still seems to prove my point that if we are to be heirs with Him then He cannot be God as well.
Here is the link to the debate that I spoke of:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11520245/Debate-Between-Trinitarian-Marc-Taylor-and-Biblical-Unitarian-Danny-Dixon
Here is a link that deals with the scriptures that are used to support the trinity:
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=170
I think both links provide good information regardless of your current persuassion on this subject.
Jon,
Who is the Holy Spirit?
Lionel,
As I’ve previously stated:
“I now believe that the Holy Spirit is God’s power and presence within the believer and not a second or third person within the “trinity”.
In the opening of their New Testament epistles, every one of the writers identifies himself with God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, but not one does so with “the Holy Spirit” (Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; Gal. 1:3).
Notice that the Apostle Paul sends personal greetings from “God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” If “the Holy Spirit” were an integral and personal part of a triune Godhead, then surely he would have sent personal greetings as well.
I John 1:3 says that “…our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.” Surely if “the Holy Spirit” were a Person in the Triune Godhead, we would have fellowship with him also. The fact that 1 John 1:3 does not mention fellowship with “the Holy Spirit” is good evidence there is no such being.
In the Holy City of Revelation 21 and 22, both God and Jesus Christ are prominently featured. Each is said to be sitting on his throne (Rev. 22:1). If “the Holy Spirit” is a “co-eternal” member of a triune Godhead, it is strange indeed that he seems to have no seat of authority on the final throne. This is good evidence that there is One God, the Father, and One Lord, Jesus Christ, but not a separate person, “the Holy Spirit.”
Jesus calls Him a person Jon. Was Jesus wrong? He says “I will send Him” how do you handle that text? Why would Jesus call an “it” a “Him” and how could Paul say we grieve an it. I can’t grieve some abstract power can I?
Lionel,
Sorry for the delayed response. I’ve been out all day and finally had some time to respond.
“The Greek word for “spirit,” pneuma, is neuter, as are all pronouns referring to the spirit, making them necessarily impersonal. I would think that many New Testament translators knew this grammatically, but yet and still translated references to the coming “spirit of truth” as “He” instead of “it” because of their Trinitarian prejudice (e.g., John 14:17). They should have consistently translated the neuter pronouns of John 14 through 16 as “it,” “its,” “itself” and “which” instead of “he,” “his,” “him,” “who,” and “whom,”.
A writer or a poet might employ such a figurative expression in the use of pronouns, but any reader acquainted with the objects referred to would recognize the figure of speech employed. Such poetic personification is employed in reference to “the Comforter.” The figure of speech Personification is common in Scripture, and is defined as attributing personal qualities, feelings, actions, etc., to things that have no real personality or personal consciousness. Wisdom is personified as such in Proverbs 8 and 9, yet no sensible person would seriously consider that a literal person named “Wisdom” helped God create the world, as Proverbs 8:30 says. The spirit of God is personified as “the Comforter” in John 14:16 and 26, 15:26, 16:7. Therefore, personal pronouns are appropriate to agree with the personal nature of the figurative title.
The “soul” or the “spirit” of man is often personified like the spirit of God is. “Why art thou cast down, O my soul?” (Ps. 42:5). “I will say to my soul, ‘Soul, thou hast much goods laid up…’” (Luke 12:19). “The spirit indeed is willing…” (Matt. 26:41). “The spirit of Titus was refreshed…” (2 Cor. 7:13). Yet no one would argue that the “spirit of man” is a separate person from the man himself. The figure of speech Personification is universally and readily recognized, and in the case of “the Comforter” ought to be recognized as well.
The spirit of man bears the same relation to man as the spirit of God bears to God (1 Cor. 2:11). As the spirit of man is not another person distinct from himself, but his human consciousness or mind by which he is able to be self-aware and contemplate things peculiar to himself, so the spirit of God is not another person distinct from God. It is that consciousness and intelligence that is essential and peculiar to Him whereby He manifests and reveals Himself to man. As the spirit of man means the man himself (the essence of a man is his mind), so the spirit of God means God Himself.
If the “spirit of truth” in John 14:17 is a person, then “the spirit of error” in 1 John 4:6 must also be a person, since the two are directly contrasted. The fact is that each “spirit” represents an influence or a power under which a person acts, but neither is a person in itself.
1 Corinthians 2:12 directly opposes the “spirit of the world” with “the spirit which is of God.” As the “spirit of the world” is not a person separate from “the world,” neither is the “spirit of God” a person separate from God. Each is an influence emanating from a source that produces certain attitudes, behaviors or “fruit.”
The “breath” of God and the “spirit” of God are synonymous terms (Job 4:9; Ps. 33:6; Ps. 104:29 and 30; John 3:8; Job 27:3). It is as inconceivable that the breath of God could be a person distinct from God as that the breath of a human could be a person distinct from a human. It is especially absurd to speak of one self-existent and eternal person as “the breath” of another such person.
Many words associated with God’s spirit give it the attributes of a liquid, which by definition cannot refer to a person. This liquid language is consistent with the spirit being His presence and power. We are baptized (literally “dipped”) with and in it like water (Matt. 3:11; Acts 1:5). We are all made to “drink” from the same spirit, as from a well or fountain (1 Cor. 12:13). It is written on our hearts like ink (2 Cor. 3:3). We are “anointed” with it, like oil (Acts 10:38; 2 Cor. 1:21 and 22; 1 John 2:27). We are “sealed” with it as with melted wax (Eph. 1:13). It is “poured out” on us (Acts 10:45; Rom. 5:5). It is “measured” as if it had volume (2 Kings 2:9; John 3:34). We are to be “filled” with it (Acts 2:4; Eph. 5:18).
All this figurative language must be designed to point us to the truth that the spirit of God is the invisible power and influence of God. It comes into our lives to buoy us up, to help us, to comfort us, to unite us and anoint us for the work to which He has called us.”
That excerpt should be ample info to answer your questions. I can not presently argue against it, for it seems to be pretty sound. Help me if I’m wrong. Point out the specific problems with this understanding on the “Holy Spirit”.
Lionel,
In addition to my last comment on the “Holy Spirit” and/or “Spirit of the Lord”, it seems to also be used as actual titles/names for God depending on the context of scripture.