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	<title>Comments on: Truth A Reason To Checkout?</title>
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	<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/</link>
	<description>the weblog of Lionel Woods</description>
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		<title>By: Lionel Woods</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/comment-page-1/#comment-1034</link>
		<dc:creator>Lionel Woods</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 15:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwoods.net/?p=345#comment-1034</guid>
		<description>Brian,

I thought about your question again. Here is the best answer, &quot;we can&#039;t stop people from dividing with us, but we can stop dividing with them&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,</p>
<p>I thought about your question again. Here is the best answer, &#8220;we can&#8217;t stop people from dividing with us, but we can stop dividing with them&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Lionel Woods</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/comment-page-1/#comment-1032</link>
		<dc:creator>Lionel Woods</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwoods.net/?p=345#comment-1032</guid>
		<description>8) @ Brian,

The question is has Christ received them. If Christ has received them then I can&#039;t reject them and if a person who believes that just because another believer that regeneration proceeds faith or other believe those who believed in some future time are the elect are not believers, I have to say quite simply that I would HAVE to divide with them because they are not obeying Jesus&#039; command to love. 

As for women, I am working through that and can say with all honesty that I can understand why somone would split with a group because they felt they were honoring Jesus and that the other group was not being faithful to scripture.  I was one of those people a couple of years ago, very strongly did I believe women couldn&#039;t be &quot;pastors&quot; but since my definition and perspective of &quot;pastoring&quot; has changed so did my view on women but I can understand why and I don&#039;t know if I would be upset with a group or a person who split.

As for Pentecostals, I wouldn&#039;t hold more than about a 10 minute discussion about such things and if a person decided to split over the use of certain expressions of the Spirit, I would probably they were extremely immature in the area of love and &quot;receiving one another&quot;. I think Paul has much to say on this subject in Romans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://www.lionelwoods.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> @ Brian,</p>
<p>The question is has Christ received them. If Christ has received them then I can&#8217;t reject them and if a person who believes that just because another believer that regeneration proceeds faith or other believe those who believed in some future time are the elect are not believers, I have to say quite simply that I would HAVE to divide with them because they are not obeying Jesus&#8217; command to love. </p>
<p>As for women, I am working through that and can say with all honesty that I can understand why somone would split with a group because they felt they were honoring Jesus and that the other group was not being faithful to scripture.  I was one of those people a couple of years ago, very strongly did I believe women couldn&#8217;t be &#8220;pastors&#8221; but since my definition and perspective of &#8220;pastoring&#8221; has changed so did my view on women but I can understand why and I don&#8217;t know if I would be upset with a group or a person who split.</p>
<p>As for Pentecostals, I wouldn&#8217;t hold more than about a 10 minute discussion about such things and if a person decided to split over the use of certain expressions of the Spirit, I would probably they were extremely immature in the area of love and &#8220;receiving one another&#8221;. I think Paul has much to say on this subject in Romans.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/comment-page-1/#comment-1031</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 13:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwoods.net/?p=345#comment-1031</guid>
		<description>so what constitutes as gross negligible false doctrine - by whose standards?  

Arminians and Calvinists see each other as heretics
Many see Pentecostals as a cult
Some groups allow women pastors other cannot/will not abide in that teaching, 
and so on, 

So how do we know what to put aside and what to take a stand for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so what constitutes as gross negligible false doctrine &#8211; by whose standards?  </p>
<p>Arminians and Calvinists see each other as heretics<br />
Many see Pentecostals as a cult<br />
Some groups allow women pastors other cannot/will not abide in that teaching,<br />
and so on, </p>
<p>So how do we know what to put aside and what to take a stand for?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/comment-page-1/#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 00:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwoods.net/?p=345#comment-1027</guid>
		<description>k...  I was hoping so...  after I left my comment, I was out driving around doing some errands, and wondering if I was a little hasty there.  Sorry about that...  Guess I&#039;m a little edgy lately, as there&#039;ve been a few people I know who for a while we&#039;re pretty supportive in this whole area, who recently seem to have done an &quot;about-face&quot;.  Maybe I&#039;m just being a little paranoid or something...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>k&#8230;  I was hoping so&#8230;  after I left my comment, I was out driving around doing some errands, and wondering if I was a little hasty there.  Sorry about that&#8230;  Guess I&#8217;m a little edgy lately, as there&#8217;ve been a few people I know who for a while we&#8217;re pretty supportive in this whole area, who recently seem to have done an &#8220;about-face&#8221;.  Maybe I&#8217;m just being a little paranoid or something&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lionel Woods</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/comment-page-1/#comment-1025</link>
		<dc:creator>Lionel Woods</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 19:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwoods.net/?p=345#comment-1025</guid>
		<description>Daniel,

That exactly what I am not saying. I actually agree with your statement and would call that &quot;informal&quot; meeting fellowship and that other stuff religion brother. And I do see denominationalism as the primary culprit. Are people looking for excuses I don&#039;t know, but I do know we are not loving one another. But to my statement, I ain&#039;t talking about church meeting times, but loving, thriving, fellowship we will let other people call it what they want 8)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel,</p>
<p>That exactly what I am not saying. I actually agree with your statement and would call that &#8220;informal&#8221; meeting fellowship and that other stuff religion brother. And I do see denominationalism as the primary culprit. Are people looking for excuses I don&#8217;t know, but I do know we are not loving one another. But to my statement, I ain&#8217;t talking about church meeting times, but loving, thriving, fellowship we will let other people call it what they want <img src='http://www.lionelwoods.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/comment-page-1/#comment-1024</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 19:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwoods.net/?p=345#comment-1024</guid>
		<description>What about the assumption that a Follower of Christ can &quot;check out&quot; in the first place?  

You said, &quot;&lt;i&gt;I hear “well I don’t have to go to church with them, but I can still love them”. HOGWASH!!! The reason you don’t want to meet with them is because you don’t want to love them and if you did want to love them you would meet with them&lt;/i&gt;.  But right here you are equating meeting with other Christians with &lt;i&gt;going to a church&lt;/i&gt;...   Maybe I&#039;m missing something here, and that&#039;s not what you&#039;re saying, but that&#039;s just how it comes across to me.  I still have relationships with many people who I do not &quot;go to church&quot; with, and I do still definitely love them.  The challenge usually seems to come when, (as Alan alluded to) the denominational mindset prevents &lt;i&gt;them&lt;/i&gt; from reaching out and trying to have a meaningful relationship with &lt;i&gt;me&lt;/i&gt;.  If I don&#039;t go to their church, then I am essentially treated as a quasi-brother in Christ.  And even worse, if I don&#039;t &quot;go&quot; to a church at all (in the institutional sense), I&#039;m more or less suspect in their eyes!   I can &quot;meet&quot; with them plenty, but because their concept of really &quot;meeting&quot; is centered around a church service, they tend to not think of such interaction as true fellowship.   It  really goes against what the scripture does teach, that we either approach people as bros/sisters in Christ, or as not, there shouldn&#039;t be this ambiguous &quot;middle ground&quot;.  Do you not see &quot;denominationalism&quot; as a rather large culprit in all of this?  Do you really think it all boils down to people looking for excuses to not love each other?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the assumption that a Follower of Christ can &#8220;check out&#8221; in the first place?  </p>
<p>You said, &#8220;<i>I hear “well I don’t have to go to church with them, but I can still love them”. HOGWASH!!! The reason you don’t want to meet with them is because you don’t want to love them and if you did want to love them you would meet with them</i>.  But right here you are equating meeting with other Christians with <i>going to a church</i>&#8230;   Maybe I&#8217;m missing something here, and that&#8217;s not what you&#8217;re saying, but that&#8217;s just how it comes across to me.  I still have relationships with many people who I do not &#8220;go to church&#8221; with, and I do still definitely love them.  The challenge usually seems to come when, (as Alan alluded to) the denominational mindset prevents <i>them</i> from reaching out and trying to have a meaningful relationship with <i>me</i>.  If I don&#8217;t go to their church, then I am essentially treated as a quasi-brother in Christ.  And even worse, if I don&#8217;t &#8220;go&#8221; to a church at all (in the institutional sense), I&#8217;m more or less suspect in their eyes!   I can &#8220;meet&#8221; with them plenty, but because their concept of really &#8220;meeting&#8221; is centered around a church service, they tend to not think of such interaction as true fellowship.   It  really goes against what the scripture does teach, that we either approach people as bros/sisters in Christ, or as not, there shouldn&#8217;t be this ambiguous &#8220;middle ground&#8221;.  Do you not see &#8220;denominationalism&#8221; as a rather large culprit in all of this?  Do you really think it all boils down to people looking for excuses to not love each other?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Young II</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/comment-page-1/#comment-1011</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Young II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwoods.net/?p=345#comment-1011</guid>
		<description>Speaking of checking out, did you get excommunicated from Facebook?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of checking out, did you get excommunicated from Facebook?</p>
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		<title>By: Lionel Woods</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/comment-page-1/#comment-1010</link>
		<dc:creator>Lionel Woods</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwoods.net/?p=345#comment-1010</guid>
		<description>Mr. Leatherman,

I will look into it. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Leatherman,</p>
<p>I will look into it. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Leatherman</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/comment-page-1/#comment-1009</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Leatherman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwoods.net/?p=345#comment-1009</guid>
		<description>Howdy Lionel,  

Have you read &quot;Theological Triage&quot; by Dr. Albert Mohler - http://www.albertmohler.com/?cat=Commentary&amp;cdate=2004-05-20?  While I can agree with some of your sentiments, the whole paradigm that you are proposing is incomplete.  You say &quot;The reason you don’t want to meet with them is because you don’t want to love them and if you did want to love them you would meet with them.&quot;  This is not necessarily true.  We cannot love everyone in the same way since our time in limited.  

The Bible asks: “Do two walk together, unless they have agreed to meet?&quot;  there must be standards for this.  

I would submit that there are some beliefs or persuasions (category 2 beliefs) that do and should separate genuine Christians because of the necessity of agreement for the church leadership over these issues and for the promotion for healthy community/body life.  It is healthy to practice theological triage, which I would suggest give a better and fuller framework to your understanding of the relationship between truth and love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howdy Lionel,  </p>
<p>Have you read &#8220;Theological Triage&#8221; by Dr. Albert Mohler &#8211; <a href="http://www.albertmohler.com/?cat=Commentary&amp;cdate=2004-05-20?" rel="nofollow">http://www.albertmohler.com/?cat=Commentary&amp;cdate=2004-05-20?</a>  While I can agree with some of your sentiments, the whole paradigm that you are proposing is incomplete.  You say &#8220;The reason you don’t want to meet with them is because you don’t want to love them and if you did want to love them you would meet with them.&#8221;  This is not necessarily true.  We cannot love everyone in the same way since our time in limited.  </p>
<p>The Bible asks: “Do two walk together, unless they have agreed to meet?&#8221;  there must be standards for this.  </p>
<p>I would submit that there are some beliefs or persuasions (category 2 beliefs) that do and should separate genuine Christians because of the necessity of agreement for the church leadership over these issues and for the promotion for healthy community/body life.  It is healthy to practice theological triage, which I would suggest give a better and fuller framework to your understanding of the relationship between truth and love.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Gaines</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/02/truth-a-reason-to-checkout/comment-page-1/#comment-1008</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Gaines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwoods.net/?p=345#comment-1008</guid>
		<description>Lionel,
These are convicting words, indeed. I&#039;m guilty. I have left my arms crossed across my chest when I should have opened them to welcome a brother or sister. Heaven is going to be filled with people who are completely wrong about some aspect of Biblical interpretation, myself most assuredly included. How often pride wears the disguise of fidelity to one&#039;s particular understanding of Biblical inerrancy/authority and interpretation.
I just stumbled upon your blog and am challenged and encouraged by what I read here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, brother!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lionel,<br />
These are convicting words, indeed. I&#8217;m guilty. I have left my arms crossed across my chest when I should have opened them to welcome a brother or sister. Heaven is going to be filled with people who are completely wrong about some aspect of Biblical interpretation, myself most assuredly included. How often pride wears the disguise of fidelity to one&#8217;s particular understanding of Biblical inerrancy/authority and interpretation.<br />
I just stumbled upon your blog and am challenged and encouraged by what I read here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, brother!</p>
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