Truth A Reason To Checkout?
Feb 19
Alan Knox said this to a response:
There are only two options (the way we treat other Christians): 1) I treat someone as a brother or sister, or 2) I treat someone as if they are not a brother or sister. Unfortunately, denominationalism tends to teach a “middle ground” where we accept that someone is a child of God, but we don’t have to treat that person (or group) as a brother or sister.
I have went back and forth with Alan about this very question and it always hinges upon “truth”. So the question is this. Is truth a reason to checkout?
Alan gave me a really good response some time ago. He says there are only a few reasons in scripture that will allow us to separate from other Christians. 1. Gross negligible false doctrine, 2. Gross unrepentant sin, 3. A refusal to work.
Gross negligible false doctrine can ONLY be those things that redefine the Gospel. That would seem to be the rejection of anything in 1 Corinthians 15 and an attempt to bring Christians only some law for their justification/Salvation which would have to be real similar to Galatians 1. Other than that there is NO other doctrinal differences that would cause us to separate.
Gross unrepentant sin would have to look something like 1 Corinthians 5, where a man had begun to have a relationship with his dad’s wife. Even the pagans thought this was wrong. There may be some other things, but again it would have to be gross and unrepentant. But again this has nothing to do with doctrinal, even the nonbelievers felt this was wrong.
The failure to work has something to do with the false teaching of end times events. None of us believe this so it may not even be a problem worth dealing with in this post; however, the guys in Thessalonians felt that Jesus was coming soon and that they need not work anymore, even after Paul wrote them about this they continued to do it and so Paul tells them to separate from them so that they can know to work.
Now lets get reall honest here. We need to quite playing games. I hear “well I don’t have to go to church with them, but I can still love them”. HOGWASH!!! The reason you don’t want to meet with them is because you don’t want to love them and if you did want to love them you would meet with them. Here is a very practical example. How many of us, stopped meeting with a group of Christians and still stay in contact and serve those group of Christians? However, we will call them our brothers and sisters, we just don’t want to meet with them. This is phony bologna and we shouldn’t play pious games like that. Truth be told, we don’t want to be bothered because we disagree and so I am going to go and love a group of Christians who do agree with me.
Food for thought.
Lion,
“HOGWASH!!” Yep!!
The reverse is often the case, when others shun you for the same “phony bologna” excuses.
Here stands the crux of why the church crumbles in the face of true community.
Lionel,
I was introduced to Christianity by a man who held to false end-times teachings. He predicted the end of the world to be in 1994. Some people either quit their jobs or didn’t get jobs (unemployed, like me) because the end was soon approaching. Others gave their life savings to his ministry, only to lose out permanently. There are from time to time those who arise that teach these things, with many who follow. Like all those who quit working to buy guns and live in bunkers in Idaho waiting for Y2K.
Anyway, this “teacher” that I heard the gospel from is on my list of rejected “believers.” Other than that, I’m sure we all really don’t accept some people (even unintentionally) and have quite a way to go in making remedy in our lives.
Thanks for the post!
Lionel,
Great post! Many believers still need to capture the vision of Kingdom community, which is the true and actual consequence of the cruciform life, dead to self and alive to Jesus.
We’re still too individualistic in our orientation.
Lionel,
These are convicting words, indeed. I’m guilty. I have left my arms crossed across my chest when I should have opened them to welcome a brother or sister. Heaven is going to be filled with people who are completely wrong about some aspect of Biblical interpretation, myself most assuredly included. How often pride wears the disguise of fidelity to one’s particular understanding of Biblical inerrancy/authority and interpretation.
I just stumbled upon your blog and am challenged and encouraged by what I read here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, brother!
Howdy Lionel,
Have you read “Theological Triage” by Dr. Albert Mohler – http://www.albertmohler.com/?cat=Commentary&cdate=2004-05-20? While I can agree with some of your sentiments, the whole paradigm that you are proposing is incomplete. You say “The reason you don’t want to meet with them is because you don’t want to love them and if you did want to love them you would meet with them.” This is not necessarily true. We cannot love everyone in the same way since our time in limited.
The Bible asks: “Do two walk together, unless they have agreed to meet?” there must be standards for this.
I would submit that there are some beliefs or persuasions (category 2 beliefs) that do and should separate genuine Christians because of the necessity of agreement for the church leadership over these issues and for the promotion for healthy community/body life. It is healthy to practice theological triage, which I would suggest give a better and fuller framework to your understanding of the relationship between truth and love.
Mr. Leatherman,
I will look into it. Thanks.
Speaking of checking out, did you get excommunicated from Facebook?
What about the assumption that a Follower of Christ can “check out” in the first place?
You said, “I hear “well I don’t have to go to church with them, but I can still love them”. HOGWASH!!! The reason you don’t want to meet with them is because you don’t want to love them and if you did want to love them you would meet with them. But right here you are equating meeting with other Christians with going to a church… Maybe I’m missing something here, and that’s not what you’re saying, but that’s just how it comes across to me. I still have relationships with many people who I do not “go to church” with, and I do still definitely love them. The challenge usually seems to come when, (as Alan alluded to) the denominational mindset prevents them from reaching out and trying to have a meaningful relationship with me. If I don’t go to their church, then I am essentially treated as a quasi-brother in Christ. And even worse, if I don’t “go” to a church at all (in the institutional sense), I’m more or less suspect in their eyes! I can “meet” with them plenty, but because their concept of really “meeting” is centered around a church service, they tend to not think of such interaction as true fellowship. It really goes against what the scripture does teach, that we either approach people as bros/sisters in Christ, or as not, there shouldn’t be this ambiguous “middle ground”. Do you not see “denominationalism” as a rather large culprit in all of this? Do you really think it all boils down to people looking for excuses to not love each other?
Daniel,
That exactly what I am not saying. I actually agree with your statement and would call that “informal” meeting fellowship and that other stuff religion brother. And I do see denominationalism as the primary culprit. Are people looking for excuses I don’t know, but I do know we are not loving one another. But to my statement, I ain’t talking about church meeting times, but loving, thriving, fellowship we will let other people call it what they want
k… I was hoping so… after I left my comment, I was out driving around doing some errands, and wondering if I was a little hasty there. Sorry about that… Guess I’m a little edgy lately, as there’ve been a few people I know who for a while we’re pretty supportive in this whole area, who recently seem to have done an “about-face”. Maybe I’m just being a little paranoid or something…
so what constitutes as gross negligible false doctrine – by whose standards?
Arminians and Calvinists see each other as heretics
Many see Pentecostals as a cult
Some groups allow women pastors other cannot/will not abide in that teaching,
and so on,
So how do we know what to put aside and what to take a stand for?
The question is has Christ received them. If Christ has received them then I can’t reject them and if a person who believes that just because another believer that regeneration proceeds faith or other believe those who believed in some future time are the elect are not believers, I have to say quite simply that I would HAVE to divide with them because they are not obeying Jesus’ command to love.
As for women, I am working through that and can say with all honesty that I can understand why somone would split with a group because they felt they were honoring Jesus and that the other group was not being faithful to scripture. I was one of those people a couple of years ago, very strongly did I believe women couldn’t be “pastors” but since my definition and perspective of “pastoring” has changed so did my view on women but I can understand why and I don’t know if I would be upset with a group or a person who split.
As for Pentecostals, I wouldn’t hold more than about a 10 minute discussion about such things and if a person decided to split over the use of certain expressions of the Spirit, I would probably they were extremely immature in the area of love and “receiving one another”. I think Paul has much to say on this subject in Romans.
Brian,
I thought about your question again. Here is the best answer, “we can’t stop people from dividing with us, but we can stop dividing with them”.