I agree 100%. It is more “we are a true church that disciplines” than it is a loving concern. Not all the times but I know of people who boast about church discipline versus being broken by it.

The tragedy is that in some groups and denominations the weak believers with all the legalistic non-binding hang ups have assumed positions of authority, stunting the growth and maturity of the group and almost guaranteeing that anyone who is maturing in their faith with leave, most likely with a good dose of illegitimate church discipline and shunning for good measure”

I don’t know what to say! Man, I don’t know what to say.

Stacy and I are looking forward to meeting you guys! Can’t wait.

I believe the Holy Spirit will always lead us to liberty not bondage, I believe Paul’s viewpoint was that the goal is for the weak to eventually become strong, we do not tip toe around their weak conscience regarding an issue because they are right, we do it because we love them as our brothers and sisters in Christ and we are patiently waiting for them to grow up.

Paul would want us all to understand that the false gods that people worship are not real and that meat sacrificed to idols means nothing, if you accept it as a blessing from the one true God, go ahead and eat it…especially if it tastes good! He would want us to know that there are now no unclean foods, he would want us to know that just because some ignorant pagans used to worship their made up gods through the fire-oaks, that decorating a home in a festive way does not mean that I am worshipping the god of the grove, or that drinking a glass of wine with dinner is not the sin of drunkenness etc.

The tragedy is that in some groups and denominations the weak believers with all the legalistic non-binding hang ups have assumed positions of authority, stunting the growth and maturity of the group and almost guaranteeing that anyone who is maturing in their faith with leave, most likely with a good dose of illegitimate church discipline and shunning for good measure!

Ummm…I think she is mature. I think her devotion to her demoninational beliefs sway her. She is legalistic in the area of celebration, yet she chooses to practice freedom in others (she drinks, she has piercings, etc). She doesn’t ever judge me about it. She just treats it like it’s an area of sin that the Holy Spirit will convict me in as I continue to grow in Christ. She doesn’t try to force it on me, but if it comes up she will boldly assert her conviction about it.

Hutch-

That’s a great observation! That’s why I asked is it possible for the Holy Spirit to convict someone of a “wrong” and not convict me of that same “wrong”? There are LOTS of people who say that their convictions are from the Holy Spirit, and I don’t think they are.

So in those cases where a person is “convicted” by a clearly biblical liberty, is it possible that they are just convicted by their own consciences and not necessarily the Holy Spirit?

You hit the nail on the head and drove it through the board my friend! By the way in about a month and a half we will finally get to share a hot cup of java and rap about the Lord! I am very excited and am praying that all goes well and the we are both healthy and available!

1. He is speaking of new believers, the church is very young itself, so he doesn’t distinguish it by newer vs older and also older and even people who have been Christians longer still can be much, much weaker.

2. I promise she is not mature, if she can’t balance her conscience with what the scriptures teach about “judging your brother” then I promise she is not mature, though she may do many things that supposedly maturer Christians are to be doing.

3. She is maturer and weaker. Look how Paul defines the weaker brother in both passages. It is the brother whose conscience is sensitive to areas of liberality. Rather that is in drinking, smoking, dancing, Easter, Christmas Trees or so forth. Not if they don’t do those things, but if they become an “apologist” (as Dave always says) then that would make them weaker, though they may be perceived to be very mature. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with those things, but when that person presses that upon you they are then the weaker brother/sister.

4. I am thankful that they live that far also, so you can have our present under the tree

What a coincidence!